[Alpacasite] Re: Anyone giving BVD vaccine?

Laurel,

I have heard this arguement against giving vaccinations, and I simply
don't understand it.

If an alpaca tests positive for BVD antibodies IT IS IMMUNE TO BVD!
An immune alpaca is not a carrier and poses now risk to it's
penmates. Further, a PI would by definition not be positive for
antibodies. Given the choice, would you want an alpaca that is still
vulnerable, or an alpaca that was immune?

Am I missing something here?

BTW, this is not to suggest that I am in favor of broadly using
vaccine for BVD at this time. I'm not.

Neil
A Paca Fun Farm
Mt. Airy, Maryland
Sugarloaf Mountain, Maryland
www.apacafunfarm.com

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Shouvlins" <bluebirdhills@v...>
wrote:
>
> Time is short here, so I have been whisking through posts and this
may have already been posted...so I apologize if I am repeating
something already said...
>
> One caution about using vaccine is that after using the vaccine,
your animals will probably test positive for BVD. The reason is that
the vaccine stimulates your alpaca to produce antibody to the the BVD
virus. Tests for BVD check for the presence of the antibody to that
virus, and the antibody's existence in your alpaca implies that it
has mounted an immune response to the virus and it is concluded that
it has "had" the disease. Most of us have had tetanus immunizations
and would probably all test positive for the presence of tetanus
antibodies.
>
> So before you go and immunize your herd, you might want to ponder
the consequences of your herd testing positive for BVD when it may
never have been exposed in the first place. If BVD tests become
standard for sales, moving across state lines, or stud contracts, a
positive test might interfere with all of that. The closer the test
is run to the time of immunization, the more positive the test will
probably be.
>
> If I immunized an 2 years ago and the antibody level is low, but
present nonetheless, how will that be interpreted by the individual
considering purchase of that alpaca? I guess if it were I, I would
mve on to another animal that was definitely negative.
>
> Perhaps it would make sense to test your alpacas first, and upon
receiving negative results for BVD, then immunize against it, and
document, document, document?
>
> Laurel
>
> Tim & Laurel Shouvlin
> Bluebird Hills Farm CSA & Alpacas
> 3617 Derr Rd. Springfield, Ohio 45503
> www.bluebirdhills.com
> bluebirdhills@v...
> 937-390-6127 or 937-206-3936 (cell)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sprucealpacas@a...
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Anyone giving BVD vaccine?
>
>
>
>
> I have been at the Northeast Type conference all day where Dr
Steve Purdy
> did a pre-conference segment on BVD.
>
> There have been a number of emails on the subject today and I
will try to
> address them here, as well as Neil questions.
>
> I'll start off by saying that there is no clear consensus amongst
the
> experts on this disease, the appropriate tests and the
effectiveness of the tests
> in camelids. Most of the research is on cattle. Dr Evans first
identified
> BVD in llamas in 1988 so this disease has been around for a
while. We haven't
> heard much about it, I think, because it was not on our radar.
I believe the
> first (at least one of the first) case identified by Cornell in
alpacas
> happened at a farm in NY where there was a stillborn. Their
vet, who does mostly
> bovine, did a necropsy and his bovine necropsy checklist
included checking
> for BVD.
>
> I would refer you to the Summer 2005 Alpacas Magazine article on
BVD for an
> excellent overview of this disease and the Winter 2006 issue for
a description
> of the tests. The 2 PI crias we identified on our farm were
diagnosed
> through a series of PCR tests and a virus isolation test. Dams
of both crias
> came to our farm 5 to 6 months pregnant from opposite ends of the
country and
> appear to have come to our farm with the disease based on the
stage of their
> pregnancy they came here and the fact that none of our animals
are PI (these
> animals are boarders). Luck of the Irish I guess that I end up
with 2 PI's
> born on my farm, but I think it is an indicator that this disease
is throughout
> the country. We were lucky that one of the 2 PI's was a "slow
starter".
> When I took him to Tufts Vet Hospital, I requested that they run
a BVD test
> because I knew of a couple of other farms that have had PI crias
this year. If
> he hadn't been a bit off, we never would have run the test on
him and later on
> the rest of our herd and identify the second PI cria. Both
crias are now 2
> to 3 months old and doing very well (at a horse farm where they
are no risk
> to other animals).
>
> Dr Evans has been using the vaccine on several herds for years.
I cannot
> comment on how well it works or how long it is effective, but I
have the
> greatest respect for Dr Evans and can only assume he would not
use it if he didn't
> think it was effective. I am not a big proponent of
vaccinations, if we can
> avoid them. My preference would be to identify those animals
who are PI,
> preferably through PCR testing at birth. When you run an IgG
test, spend $35
> and run a PCR test on that cria.
>
> Neil asked if you should test 10 year olds. I think just about
everyone
> would say no because if they were PI, you would likely have seen
problems with
> them or their crias, but there are certainly cases in cattle
where PI cows
> have lived for years and reproduced. If you want to be sure -
run tests. A PCR
> test, which identifies acute infections (a PI cria will always
test
> positive), can be run in pools of 10 samples for $35 (Cornell's
charge). If the
> sample of all 10 is negative, end of story, testing is done and
you pay $35. If
> the sample of 10 is positive, then they start breaking the
sample down into
> smaller samples to identify the positive sample and you would be
charged based
> on the number of tests run. Cornell is very confident that
their false
> positive rate is low because of their controls. Certainly you
would not put down
> an animal based on one PCR positive test. If you are concerned
about
> pregnant females being exposed, run a serum neutralization test
(Cornell's charge:
> $13). This test identifies antibodies which indicates if the
animal has been
> exposed to the disease. I would argue that antibodies are good,
although I
> would like to know if a female has antibodies before she gets
pregnant. An
> animal that has antibodies has made its ways thru the disease, is
not
> contagious and is of no risk to your herd (unless she was exposed
during the early
> stage of her pregnancy, resulting in the possibility of a PI cria
which puts
> your farm at risk when it is born).
>
> Even though this disease has been a nightmare for my farm, I
believe there
> should not be hysteria about the disease. It is certainly a
problem, but one
> that we are now aware of and can address with education and
testing. You need
> to educate yourself about the disease and assess your level of
risk.
> Understand that like most alpaca medical issues, the experts do
not agree. You
> will get very different advice from different vets and
virologists. Educate
> yourself and decide what you are comfortable with. There is
research that is
> being done but it needs funding (ARF is sponsoring some
research. Tufts is
> doing some research and I hope there is a lot more out there).
Because of
> testing, I now know the risk to my herd of females who have been
exposed during
> pregnancy and are at risk to produce a PI cria next year because
of their
> exposure. My plan is to isolate those females from other
pregnant females at the
> time of birth and test the crias. Just because a female is
exposed during
> pregnancy and has developed antibodies doesn't mean that the in
utero cria
> will definitely be PI. Today, Dr Purdy stated that they believe
that 1 in 3
> will be PI.
>
> Steve McCarthy
> Spruce Ridge Farm
> Old Chatham, NY
> _www.spruceridgefarm.com_ (http://www.spruceridgefarm.com)
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2005 8:17:14 A.M. Eastern Standard
Time,
> mpcpneilp@a... writes:
>
> Steve,
>
> Thanks for the insight. I should have said, "no shows recently,
only
> males shown in the last year and a half, no outside breedings
with
> cria by side, and no pregnant females bought in from other
farms."
>
> I can certainly have alpacas previously exposed to BVD on the
farm,
> but they would be immune and not a source of future infection.
At
> least that is my current understanding.
>
> While I've got you, given that you are now the resident
alpacasite
> expert on this disease perhaps I can draw upon your knowledge
for
> alpacasite? Here are some questions;
>
> 1)How good is the test(s) for BVD?
>
> 2)The vaccine available now (like every other vaccine;-) is
bovine.
> Does it work well in alpacas? How long is it effective? How sure
are
> we of this?
>
> 3)Thoughts vary on how important a pathogen BVD is in alpacas.
Given
> what you have been through, in your opinion what reasonable
> precautions should the prudent breeder take as of 12/05? In
theory,
> any alpaca bred and raised on another farm then bought could be
a
> potential PI. Should we now test 10 year olds? And if they are
> positive to the test, can we tell if they are persistently
infected
> of immune?
>
> Thanks in advance for your further insight. Carol Pfister, if
you are
> out there feel free to jump in.
>
> Neil
> A Paca Fun Farm
> Mt. Airy, Maryland
> Sugarloaf Mountain, Maryland
> www.apacafunfarm.com
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, sprucealpacas@a... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Neil
> > Unless you have tested your herd, I don't think you can make
the
> statement
> > "No BVD here." It is a fallacy that all PI crias are sick. A
PI
> cria born on
> > our farm in September is almost 3 months old now (no longer on
my
> farm but
> > at a horse farm where it can be studied) and she is
the "picture
> of health".
> > Never had diarrhea or a temperature, never lethargic; races
around
> the field
> > like a race horse. It is only because another cria was sick
that
> we tested
> > the herd for BVD and identified this girl as PI. PI cows can
live
> and
> > reproduce for many years.
> >
> > You refer to shows as your exposure risk. There are many ways
to
> be
> > exposed. Probably the best is outside breedings, especially
when a
> cria is at side.
> >
> > As far as vaccines, Dr Evans has been vaccinating herds for
> years. See page
> > 120 of his new book. He first identified BVD in 1988
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve McCarthy
> > Spruce Ridge Farm
> > Old Chatham, NY
> > www.spruceridgefarm.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/9/2005 10:14:24 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time,
> > mpcpneilp@a... writes:
> >
> > Since we are on the topic of vaccines, here's a question for
the
> list.
> >
> > I've been asked off-list twice in the last week if I am
giving BVD
> > vaccine. I'm not, at least not yet.
> >
> > Fortunately, since I'm still in the process of building
facilities
> at
> > our new farm I haven't been to a show since MAPACA. No BVD
here! I
> > don't have to worry about BVD again until March, when I hope
to
> have
> > the new farm finished, be moved in, and have the time to show
> again.
> >
> > So, the question is, who out there is using BVD vaccine. What
is
> your
> > experience? Does the vaccine provide any protection in
alpacas?
> Any
> > adverse reactions to the vaccine?
> >
> > Neil
> > A Paca Fun Farm
> > Mt. Airy, Maryland
> > Sugarloaf Mountain, Maryland
> > www.apacafunfarm.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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