RE: [Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria- - 'stripping' teats

Hi Tim:

We only milk the one time (sorry if I misquoted the facts), it's a good
point to leave everything alone since that is how it is in nature - all the
training we have received (from Camelid vets and other farms that we deal
with) pointed us this direction. If we pull 5-6 CCs that first occasion we
know the cria is going to digest it (plus we have a little control over body
temp, as the digestive system will not function as well if the cria is under
98 F), and as I mentioned earlier we can gauge the suckle reflex.

Does anyone on here actually save colostrum in the event of a stillborn? I
was curious as to how long the shelf life is. We keep frozen plasma on hand
just in case. Out of 15 deliveries in the past 12 months the only time we
had to use it was when one of the deliveries involved twins. One did
survive, but both had IP transfusions.

Paul Kimball
Bluff View Farms LLC
Birchwood, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Tim Wilson
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:47 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria- -
'stripping' teats

Paul,

I appreciate your clarification on my misunderstanding of your original
post. If you give this first milk back to the cria why would you not
leave it in the dam in the first place and have the cria nurse it out
naturally (your post said you stripped several cc's several times which
is quite a bit in our experience)?

Congratulations on such high IgG's. We too have been lucky on the few
that we have had tested.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

cpqcolor wrote:

>Just to clarify, the milk/colostrum we initially pull from the dam
>is all given to the cria, we do save a few drops and rub it back on
>the teats as a lure for nursing. This was recommended by Toni
>Cotton in one of her neonatal classes we attended.
>
>I agree, the first milk is gold. We only milk the dam once unless
>otherwise required, I tend to beleive that making sure they get that
>first colostrum is what helps get us our consistent 2000+ IgGs.
>
>Paul Kimball
>Bluff View Farms LLC
>Birchwood, TN
>
>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "andesdandies" <sue@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>Tim,
>>
>>According to Dr. LaRue Johnson's neonatal seminar, you are
>>
>>
>correct.
>
>
>>The VERY FIRST milk is the strongest, each subsequent feeding
>>decreases rapidly. He advises against expressing out teats to
>>
>>
>start
>
>
>>them up unless you save it and feed it to that cria (a few drops
>>
>>
>is
>
>
>>ok).
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Sue Zelazny
>>Andes Dandies, LLC
>>http://www.andesdandies.com
>>Middleport, NY
>>
>>
>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>
>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>Rachelle,
>>>
>>>I do not have any concrete evidence but I suspect that the most
>>>colostrum rich milk is likely to be the very first few ounces
>>>
>>>
>that
>
>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>dam produces. This I would guess is best to get inside the cria
>>>
>>>
>>right
>>
>>
>>>away (stomach lining closing in 24 hours and all). Would seem to
>>>
>>>
>me
>
>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>most logical thing would be to have the cria nurse naturally and
>>>
>>>
>>get as
>>
>>
>>>much of this rich milk as soon as possible.
>>>
>>>Always learning. I will ask my vet and see what he thinks. Maybe
>>>
>>>
>we
>
>
>>>should be doing things differently. We've only has to supplement
>>>
>>>
>>one
>>
>>
>>>cria and it was nearly 3 months old. And this only lasted for 2
>>>
>>>
>>weeks.
>>
>>
>>>As always, thanks for your input.
>>>
>>>Tim Wilson
>>>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>>>Chagrin Falls, OH
>>>
>>>Wyatt Black wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Tim,
>>>>I can think of a reason. We try and routinely milk a few
>>>>
>>>>
>ounces
>
>
>>at least out of mom with the birth of every new cria. The reason
>>
>>
>is,
>
>
>>in case there is a need for supplementation, we have the best
>>
>>
>thing
>
>
>>right on hand. If it is a first time mom, we might even go for
>>
>>
>more,
>
>
>>just in case.
>>
>>
>>>>Doesn't take anything away from the cria, and it is readily
>>>>
>>>>
>>available for the little one should the need arise.
>>
>>
>>>>Ciao~
>>>>Rachelle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wyatt & Rachelle Black
>>>>Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
>>>>Honesty, Integrity, Quality
>>>>6500 Digier Road
>>>>P.O. Box 457
>>>>Lebec, CA
>>>>93243
>>>>http://www.blackmagicalpacaranch.com
>>>>wyattblack@e...
>>>>661-248-6568
>>>>
>>>>Message: 16
>>>>Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:31:55 -0500
>>>>From: Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>>>Subject: Re: Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria
>>>>
>>>>Paul,
>>>>
>>>>Curious by one of your comments "Mom has plenty of milk, we
>>>>
>>>>
>>stripped
>>
>>
>>>>several CCs early".
>>>>
>>>>Why would you strip mom of any milk (other than a brief check
>>>>
>>>>
>to
>
>
>>see
>>
>>
>>>>that the teats are not clogged/blocked and were working)?
>>>>
>>>>Tim Wilson
>>>>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>>>>Chagrin Falls, OH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>cpqcolor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Chris:
>>>>>
>>>>>He was 14.9 at birth, born at noon on Wednesday - when I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>weighed
>
>
>>him
>>
>>
>>>>>a little while ago he was already 16.3. Running around, full
>>>>>
>>>>>
>of
>
>
>>>>>piss and vinegar (can I say that on here?). Mom has plenty of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>milk,
>>
>>
>>>>>we stripped several CCs early and since, and I've watched him
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>nurse
>>
>>
>>>>>and he seems to have it down pat - it's hard to tell how much
>>>>>
>>>>>
>he
>
>
>>>>>actually gets each feeding - he's grey so his "milk mouth" is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>harder
>>
>>
>>>>>to see :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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