[Alpacasite] Re: Breeding Maidens (again)

Let me stir the pot a bit - I know, something unusual for me ;-)

I would suggest that the majority of animals sold by serious breeders
are, in fact, their culls. Why? Because we simply don't sell our
best animals. Those are the ones that are moving us towards our
breeding goals. We sell the animals that no longer move us forward.

That does not mean that the animals are "bad", or that they suffer
from some serious flaw. It simply means that they no longer fit in our
program.

It is something to keep in mind when purchasing animals though.
Always a good idea to ask pointed questions about why an animal is for
sale, and always a good idea to know why you are buying a specific
animal.

Regarding my statement about selecting against a trait... This does
not always mean declaring an animal a non-breeder. It is possible to
breed against an undesirable trait, since there is always another half
to the equation. So, we always put a good bite over a bad bite, and
never the opposite. Further, we never use a male with a bad bite.
The goal is to reduce or eliminate the bite problems over time within
the herd.

The same strategy can be used for late sexual maturity, etc.

Some issues though would call for elimination from the herd. Full
disclosure to potential buyers might be an appropriate strategy
sometimes, and non-breeder status might be the appropriate strategy
other times.

The problems arise when problem animals are sold without disclosure
and/or are misrepresented for what they are.

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa Robin Olsen"
<AlpacaAtlantic@a...> wrote:
>
> Cathy,
> Unfortunately I've found that too many breeders do just as you're
> suggesting -- pass their culls off to the unsuspecting, and usually
> at a very attractive price. Fortunately our industry is small
> enough that word-of-mouth eventually catches up to breeders that
> sell culls. The right thing to do, is to suck up the financial
> loss, and either keep them as companions, or sell them as fiber
> animals without papers - or with "non-breeder" identified on the
> registration.
>
> About the issue of hymens though -- after listening to a very
> passionate presentation by Dr Toni Cotton, Bill and I have backed
> off breeding our maidens until around 2 years of age. Dr Cotton
> insists that a hymen is a sign of sexual immaturity, and that the
> hymen will break down on its own (without the help of a penis or
> gloved hand) when the animal is mature -- and that kushing is not a
> sign of maturity.
>
> We keep a couple of our own maidens each season for our breeding
> program and since breeding the girls later, have had a great success
> rate with conceptions on the first breeding -- 100% this season.
> And we'll rule out the possibility of birthing complications if we
> ensure hymens are gone (naturally) before breeding.
>
> But as John suggested, perhaps animals that are slow to mature
> should be culled??? I'm not sure though that the animals are
> physically mature (filled out in full body size) until perhaps 3
> years of age. Something to think about........after another cup of
> coffee!
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Lisa
>
> Alpaca Atlantic of TN: Full-time Ranchers, Full-time Commitment,
> Full-time Support!
> Manchester, Tennessee
> Phone: (931) 728-6945
>
> Web Site: http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com
> E-mail: AlpacaAtlantic@a...
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Cathy Stephenson
> <midnightfire@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Okay here goes the question again seeings how the door is open
> again. If we
> > don't want this as a breed standard---what do you do with culled
> animals? I
> > know what a dairy or beef herd does but I also realize that
> alpacas are
> > vastly different. So what do you do. Pass an unexceptable
> breeder of on
> > another unsuspecting newby to deal with? What a way to build a
> good name.
> > Cathy
> > StephenOakes Farms
> > Chester, SC
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jubileeacres@o...>
> > To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Breeding Maidens (again)
> >
> >
> > > Hi again John:
> > > On this I agree with you 100%. Why continue to breed an animal
> that has
> > > this problem unless you want a barn full of animals with it.
> Time to
> > > cull.
> > > --
> > > Wayne
> > > Southwestern Ontario,
> > > Canada
> > > http://jubileeacres.net
> > > http://wordsmith.fateback.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting gatewayfarm <johnwmerrell@e...>:
> > >
> > >> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Why should this be necessary in a healthy, reproductively sound
> > >> animal?
> > >>
> > >> And a follow up for those experiencing these issues with intact
> hymens
> > >> - Is this a heritable trait? If so, I would think that this
> would be
> > >> something we would want to very strongly select against,
> especially if
> > >> we are trying to breed production animals.
> > >>
> > >> John Merrell
> > >> Gateway Farm Alpacas
> > >> http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
> > >> Alpaca, a natural elegance...
> > >>
> > >>
>

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