Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia
Sue,
Thank you so much for your medical facts. I actually understand it as you put everything in human terms. But tell me, would you recomend giving newborn crias vaccinations? Or would you recommend giving them at a latter time, say a month old or 3 monthes old?
Thank you,
Wendy Cruz
Humming B Alpacas
-----Original Message-----
From: s.coombes1@btopenwo
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Sent: Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:34 am
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia
Hi everyone,
I am a medical proffessional who has just bought 3 alpacas in the uk. I find the discussion here interesting. We don't have the same diseases here. I can provide some info though.
You are quite right that passive immunity is quite different. Basically the antibodies to disease are passed on in the milk (and prior to that through the placenta) just as in humans. It does of course require that the mother had the disease (or vaccination)and built an immunity which she can pass on. It is limited and can be overwhelmed by a severe infection. Active immunity on the other hand is where the animal is making it's own antibodies. The production of antibodies is active in that it can increase if the infection is severe. Even then it can be overwhelmed. Antibiotics are used in a very specific way where immunity is not guaranteed or is being overwhelmed. Very often the antibiotic is very specific to the disease present. However they cannot work without some immunity in most diseases which is why the other two types of immunity are important. The reason for that is that although it would be nice to think that antibiotics are bactericidal they are often only bacteriostatic. That means we would like them to kill the bugs but often they just prevent multiplication and let the immune system do the rest. I have no idea about specific antibiotics outside of human use. The immune system functions the same.
Vaccinations are used to induce active immunity by 'pretending' to be the disease we need immunity to . Usually it is a killed version of the disease (like tetanus)or a live harmless relative ---not to be used in pregnancy (like our polio vaccine). It can be in the form of immunoglobulin in an emergency, this would be passive and wears off with time. Passive immunity wears off and cannot induce active immunity. We cannot predict precisely when passive immunity will wear off. It would seem wise to vaccinate before the passive immunity wears off. Vaccination does not guarantee immunity will take place and it can reduce with time. That is why a starter 'course' is given and boosters.
When animals are outside their country of origin they do not have immunity to the diseases in the new environment. There is a genetic component to immunity, some individuals are naturally immune. Similarly new diseases can spread over a continent where there is no immunity(like swine flu). I think you have a lot more diseases over there than we have here for your alpacas and horses. A vaccine with 8 different diseases is amazing. I can understand that though as the loss of even one cria is devastating. If you gave them one at a time there would be a few slipping through the net and then herd immunity would be affected. Herd immunity is when sufficient members are vaccinated that the disease cannot hop from individual to individual and spread across a nation. It has nothing to do with individual herds. Having animals vaccinated protects them but also prevents the spread of disease across the country. We are in that position with blue tongue here. It is quite scary.
I hope this isn't too much info!
There is more specific info here as well as a link.
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vth/camelids/vax.aspx
http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/live/g1445/build/g1445.pdf
Best wishes
Sue and her three boys
Leroy Brown, Frankie Jones and George
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com , "Laura A. Roberts" <laura0554@...> wrote:
>
> I am not a vet, nor remotely a medical professional, but I am
> quite sure that the passive immunity ANTIBODIES is totally different than
> treating a cria with ANTIBIOTICS. If a cria has an infection, ie sepsis of
> any kind, antibiotics are definitely necessary. Antibodies are the result
> of the mother's immunity to disease through vaccination and/or exposure.
> Babies obtain antibodies from the colostrum but it is not an indefinite
> protection, which is why vaccinations are necessary to protect the cria
> after a period of time.
>
> We vaccinate our babies one month after birth for C,D and T and
> at three months for rabies.
>
>
>
> Laura Roberts
>
> R Half Pint Farm
>
> Spotsylvania, VA
>
> 540 895-5877
>
> _____
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com ] On
> Behalf Of Michael A. Morack
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:14 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia
>
>
>
>
>
> If the cria is getting the "passive immunity", antibiotics from the mother,
> under what circumstances do you find the need to inject antibiotics in a
> nursing cria?
> Michael
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
> Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@> wrote:
> >
> > What is the source of your confusion?
> >
> > Heather
> >
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:43 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:
> >
> > > Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might
> > > clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the
> > > passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I
> > > agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a
> > > contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.
> > >
> > > Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael
> > >
> > > Michael and Margery A. Morack
> > > Greenbriar Farm
> > > Waukesha, WI
> > > 262.970.9633 MAM2@
> >
>
I am a medical proffessional who has just bought 3 alpacas in the uk. I find the discussion here interesting. We don't have the same diseases here. I can provide some info though.
You are quite right that passive immunity is quite different. Basically the antibodies to disease are passed on in the milk (and prior to that through the placenta) just as in humans. It does of course require that the mother had the disease (or vaccination)
Vaccinations are used to induce active immunity by 'pretending' to be the disease we need immunity to . Usually it is a killed version of the disease (like tetanus)or a live harmless relative ---not to be used in pregnancy (like our polio vaccine). It can be in the form of immunoglobulin in an emergency, this would be passive and wears off with time. Passive immunity wears off and cannot induce active immunity. We cannot predict precisely when passive immunity will wear off. It would seem wise to vaccinate before the passive immunity wears off. Vaccination does not guarantee immunity will take place and it can reduce with time. That is why a starter 'course' is given and boosters.
When animals are outside their country of origin they do not have immunity to the diseases in the new environment. There is a genetic component to immunity, some individuals are naturally immune. Similarly new diseases can spread over a continent where there is no immunity(like swine flu). I think you have a lot more diseases over there than we have here for your alpacas and horses. A vaccine with 8 different diseases is amazing. I can understand that though as the loss of even one cria is devastating. If you gave them one at a time there would be a few slipping through the net and then herd immunity would be affected. Herd immunity is when sufficient members are vaccinated that the disease cannot hop from individual to individual and spread across a nation. It has nothing to do with individual herds. Having animals vaccinated protects them but also prevents the spread of disease across the country. We are in that position with blue tongue here. It is quite scary.
I hope this isn't too much info!
There is more specific info here as well as a link.
http://www.vetmed.
http://www.ianrpubs
Best wishes
Sue and her three boys
Leroy Brown, Frankie Jones and George
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
>
> I am not a vet, nor remotely a medical professional, but I am
> quite sure that the passive immunity ANTIBODIES is totally different than
> treating a cria with ANTIBIOTICS. If a cria has an infection, ie sepsis of
> any kind, antibiotics are definitely necessary. Antibodies are the result
> of the mother's immunity to disease through vaccination and/or exposure.
> Babies obtain antibodies from the colostrum but it is not an indefinite
> protection, which is why vaccinations are necessary to protect the cria
> after a period of time.
>
> We vaccinate our babies one month after birth for C,D and T and
> at three months for rabies.
>
>
>
> Laura Roberts
>
> R Half Pint Farm
>
> Spotsylvania, VA
>
> 540 895-5877
>
> _____
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> Behalf Of Michael A. Morack
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:14 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia
>
>
>
>
>
> If the cria is getting the "passive immunity", antibiotics from the mother,
> under what circumstances do you find the need to inject antibiotics in a
> nursing cria?
> Michael
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@
> >
> > What is the source of your confusion?
> >
> > Heather
> >
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:43 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:
> >
> > > Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might
> > > clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the
> > > passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I
> > > agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a
> > > contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.
> > >
> > > Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael
> > >
> > > Michael and Margery A. Morack
> > > Greenbriar Farm
> > > Waukesha, WI
> > > 262.970.9633 MAM2@
> >
>
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