[Alpacasite] Re: Alpaca vs. llama prices - Attn: Susan Gawarecki

<<Susan Gawarecki wrote>>

<<which means up to maybe $400 gross per year from each animal for
fleece alone.>>

The cost of having fiber processed to yarn, fabric or sweaters and
sock are subject to the economies of scale. As more fleece is
produced in North America the processing cost to produce a sweater
will drop to less than $40 for a sweater that retails at $150-200.

<<If you know how to get $2000 for a single animal's fleece per
year, do let us in on the secret. I'll buy more $750 gelded alpacas
to make that kind of profit.>>

Take 8 pounds of Suri fleece, turn it into 12 yards of worsted cloth
at a processing cost of $500 and sell the suri worsted at $250 per
yard. Check with fine men's suit makers what they pay for
alpaca/cashmere/wool blends. $600 and up is not uncommon.

<<The other factor you neglect is that alpaca fleece coarsens with
age and becomes significantly less desirable for fine fabric, so
production years are limited. Already we're seeing alpacas
(predominantly males) going into rescue situations because they are
not considered breeding quality and their fleece has gotten coarse,
so they are worthless to their owners.>>

A Ian Watt suggests, geld the non-breeding quality males (sometime
between 6 an 18 month, let's not revisit that one) and you get 15-20
years (not 6 like the example) of decent fleece. Pay attention to
the female's diet and you get at least 5-7 good years.

<<I estimate the true value of a female alpaca at about 1/5 of what
you do: $2000 to $4000.>>

Your math is correct if you base it on your erroneous assumption. If
you don't believe there is money to be made in fleece, my advice is
stick with old style llamas that produce NO renewable product of any
value. But don't let on to the Australian government, they have a
lot of resources and money invested in starting a viable alpaca
fleece industry.

<<And as far as "improving" the value of a fleece, I think there is
a physical limit to micron count and fleece weight. Plus, if that is
all you are breeding for, then the other attributes of the animal
(conformation, disposition, reproductive strength) are compromised;
look at dogs, cats, and horses to see what single-trait selection
can do to a breed.>>

Excellent point this is what scares a lot of breeders about a "breed
standard".

<<prices will fall to levels more in line with what actual value a
female alpaca can produce by producing fiber and more fiber animals,
instead of prices based on speculation.>>

Possibly but since there is historical data about the llama industry
where the fleece animals have retained value while the "old style"
with no renewable valuable fleece are given away as pets, we should
expect something similar in the alpaca business.

<<By the way, how can you determine if a maiden is "reproductively
sound"? Do you sell a female alpaca with a guarantee that you will
buy her back (for $10,000 to $20,000) if she can't conceive, can't
hold a pregnancy, can't produce enough milk, or throws a cria with a
birth defect? I would hope that most reputable breeders would extend
such a guarantee for those prices, but I do read a lot of questions
about females with reproductive problems.>>

When we sell a female we do offer a reproduction guarantee. It's a
pretty standard clause in alpaca sales contracts. Wasn't it in llama
contracts?

<<I'm not trying to create angst in alpaca owners, but I do think
the industry is operating on unrealistic expectations. The llama
industry has "been there, done that.">>

Let's NOT go into the 1001 things that the ILR and the llama
industry did wrong. That's not to say the alpaca industry won't make
mistakes and possible monumental blunders but we at least have
the "lessons learned" from the llama industry.

Regards,
Greystone Manor
Gary Epp

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Susan Gawarecki
<llamaladysg@y...> wrote:
>
> Gary Epp wrote:
>
> <<An alpaca that yields 6-8 pounds per year of mid to
> low 20 micron fleece is producing a renewable product
> worth more than $2000 gross (12-15 sweaters)
> annually.>>
>
> This is true, but the alpaca is producing fleece, not
> sweaters. I see alpaca fleece selling for $3+/oz to
> spinners, which means up to maybe $400 gross per year
> from each animal for fleece alone. Then you need to
> subtract the cost of shearing ($25) and mill costs for
> fiber preparation (about $15/lb or $120 for an entire
> 8-lb fleece--and some of that is waste). So your net
> on that fleece is maybe $250--which might be enough to
> cover feed and vet bills for the year. Now, you can
> spin the wool and knit that sweater yourself, but you
> will then be working for minimum wage or less.
>
> If you know how to get $2000 for a single animal's
> fleece per year, do let us in on the secret. I'll buy
> more $750 gelded alpacas to make that kind of profit.
>
> The other factor you neglect is that alpaca fleece
> coarsens with age and becomes significantly less
> desirable for fine fabric, so production years are
> limited. Already we're seeing alpacas (predominantly
> males) going into rescue situations because they are
> not considered breeding quality and their fleece has
> gotten coarse, so they are worthless to their owners.
>
> <<The above example uses VERY conservative numbers and
> assumptions but clearly establishes a base value for a
> reproductively sound maiden in the $10,000 to $20,000
> range.>>
>
> Based on actual gross fleece value (as opposed to
> gross value of sweaters), I estimate the true value of
> a female alpaca at about 1/5 of what you do: $2000 to
> $4000. And as far as "improving" the value of a
> fleece, I think there is a physical limit to micron
> count and fleece weight. Plus, if that is all you are
> breeding for, then the other attributes of the animal
> (conformation, disposition, reproductive strength) are
> compromised; look at dogs, cats, and horses to see
> what single-trait selection can do to a breed.
>
> In truth, female llamas are selling for $10,000 to
> $20,000 because of "tulip mania" (Google it if you are
> not familiar). Particularly if the US economy starts
> to slide, and people can less afford the luxury of a
> hobby farm, prices will fall to levels more in line
> with what actual value a female alpaca can produce by
> producing fiber and more fiber animals, instead of
> prices based on speculation.
>
> By the way, how can you determine if a maiden is
> "reproductively sound"? Do you sell a female alpaca
> with a guarantee that you will buy her back (for
> $10,00 to $20,000) if she can't conceive, can't hold a
> pregnancy, can't produce enough milk, or throws a cria
> with a birth defect? I would hope that most reputable
> breeders would extend such a guarantee for those
> prices, but I do read a lot of questions about females
> with reproductive problems.
>
> I'm not trying to create angst in alpaca owners, but I
> do think the industry is operating on unrealistic
> expectations. The llama industry has "been there,
> done that."
>
>
> Susan Gawarecki
> Pathfinder Farm
> Andersonville, TN
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
> Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>

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